[00:00:00] Tieron: And that point that you just made goes back to why it's wrong to think that you just need more traffic to make more money because we didn't just broke down like five or six things of what else you can do outside of just pushing more traffic to your website. All right. So I had somebody walk up to me and actually this was at a conference. So he was like, Ty, I thought I needed more traffic to my website. He said, I thought that was the answer to my situation. He was like, but when you started breaking down these conversion boosters to me, that's when I knew that I didn't need more traffic. I just needed to convert more of the traffic that was coming to my website. Have you ever heard anybody say that before?

[00:01:40] Kai: Yeah, that's, I think that's pretty common and I don't know, I feel like it's probably, you know, logically, logically, right. It makes sense. Like on paper, you know, it's, it's pretty common sense, but the thing of it is, is like the moment that you have more traffic coming through, you tend to start hitting different levels of inefficiency. Right. So it's not, it's not in your best interest to, to solely focus on more traffic, right? Like you've got to be focused on more traffic in conjunction with a bunch of other things so that you can be fully optimizing and attempting to reach peak efficiency as you scale up.

[00:02:23] Tieron: Right. One of those, I think a couple of those things, right. Is not only just the design on the site, but also just as you just said, right. Back end sales. We want to make sure that the, the back end is dope as well. As far as like your retention strategy, you may also have messaging issues. Yeah.

[00:02:39] Tommie: but hang on, hang on, bro. Hang on. Cause cause one thing is let's keep it A book, right? A lot of these mindsets are being created by these fake ass gurus out here that got people, you know, they selling the, that's what they're selling people.

[00:02:57] Kai: I didn't, I didn't want to say it.

[00:02:59] Tommie: I'm saying it. when you got fourth graders talking to third graders, you know, you, you, you essentially got, you know, or even third graders, there's one chapter ahead of the other third grader. Right.

[00:03:14] Tieron: You on page three? You on page two, I'm on

[00:03:16] Tommie: You know what's going on out here. Yeah. So for people that don't know, they don't know any better. And when they're being told by people that's supposed to know more than they know. Oh yeah. You just get more traffic. Woo woo woo woo.

[00:03:29] Tieron: Yep.

[00:03:29] Tommie: So that mindset, a lot of times these people aren't making this shit up in their own brain. They're being fed this bss. To be thinking like this. I just needed to put that out there before we get

[00:03:41] Kai: we get No, no, it's true. There's actually a, I remember at a conference we were at over the summer, somebody told me that they had been told, they were, I guess, standing in like a little group of people or whatever. And they had been told by somebody, I guess he was going around. Well, I don't know if it was a he. So let me, let me, he or she was kind of going around to people in the group and was like, you know, Oh, let me see your IG. Oh, you got a lot of followers. Oh, you need to be turning traffic up. Like you should be. And, and people were like soaking that up. Now, mind you, the person that talked to me was like, well, I mean, I rock with NLA. But it was wild to me that like people were really in this these streets Basically saying oh, yeah, you you definitely need more traffic now because you got all these followers

[00:04:27] Tommie: right? That's same, same

[00:04:31] Kai: same thing What are we talking about?

[00:04:33] Tieron: that's about, that's about as wild as the, as the pixel, the pixel situation that we

[00:04:37] Tommie: but it's not wild because it's conventional wisdom. If you call it, or you know what I mean? When you got, you got so many people, there's so few people that really got knowledge in this space. Like, come on, let's, let's keep it a bean, right? Like this still is a relatively new industry. That's true. We just happen to be ogs and been around this thing for a long time, but the lion's share of the industry is Not that advanced on this stuff. So then it creates the opportunity For these people, like what you just talked about, to exist, where they got them commanding the space, and they got all these people surrounding them, and we looking at that, and they talking about looking like the side eye, like, this motherfucker don't know what the fuck they talking about. Then, like you said, kinda have someone who rock with us. Be able to, be like, yeah, this is bullshit. I love it, Hey, look, I don't want to harp on that. I just need to, get that out of the way, you know, early on. And I want all the smoke. So if you got a problem too bad,

[00:05:43] Tieron: to, Let us know. Let us know in the comments. Don't be

[00:05:46] Tommie: you know what I mean? So, so anyway, moving along, Ty,

[00:05:50] Tieron: and before, and before we move forward, we need to let people know, yo, if you, if you rock with us, if you like what you're hearing, like subscribe, share in the comments, let us know. So that way we can keep, keep making it happen for y'all. That's all I wanted to say.

[00:06:04] Tommie: No, we're going to, we're going to progress this conversation forward. So I actually took you off of your point that you were going to make and interrupted you. So I'm just giving you the reins back.

[00:06:15] Tieron: Yeah. So I was, so I was just simply going to say when we think about again, you know, I just need more traffic to my website. I think the person that's been listening to us, they started thinking about all the things that you can do. With the traffic that you already have before you start just ramping up more traffic, right? So that way as Kai said, you can achieve maximum efficiency. With your ads and with the traffic that you already have, some of those things we're going to touch on is going to be like design issues, maximizing the customers that you already have, messaging issues, making sure that your offer is actually strong because right now maybe you have a weak offer, right? And then even pushing some of that traffic to other platform shops, we're going to hit on is that hit on that as well. And then like product issues, um, to, so make sure that we make your product stronger or product development issues. So that way your product is a lot stronger.

[00:07:02] Tommie: you, you said design issues. I want to bring you. back to that, right? in my mind, it's more about functionality than design. So maybe you can talk about. Your perspective on design. Cause to me, I'm

[00:07:19] Tieron: Because for

[00:07:19] Tommie: like functionality.

[00:07:21] Tieron: Yeah. So for me, for me, when I think about design, I'm a, I'm gonna give you a case of points. So I was talking to a founder, and the founder was in the skincare niche. So from a functionality standpoint, the site functioned, the site did what it was supposed to do. You click the click from the ad, you went to the, you went to the product page. There was a block image of some, uh, some skincare product. The pricing, everything was right there next door. It was a straight up out of the box Shopify theme. You click the button and then you can go and add it to your cart and you can check out. But the problem was in the skincare space, the design, as soon as you click, as soon as you click that button, that website needs to open up like a beautiful flower in your face. You need to have an immediate like, Ooh, like, Oh, this is some, this is some real stuff. So. We found, we saw, we found their competitor's website, and as soon as we clicked on the product, the site just opened up. It was like, you could see this person taking this, this small boat out into the woods of Brazil or someplace to find this herb, and that's why this product was 873 for one ounce of this skin care, of this skin care product. Versus them. They just had a square block picture of the product and then they was trying to ask for even half of that price. I think they was trying to ask for like 100 for their skincare product. And nobody looked at that site. Nobody looked at that product and believed that this product or this website was worth 175. Nobody just believed the aesthetics that was coming at them when they opened the site. So that's what I mean by like the design, especially if you're, if you're in like if you're selling truck parts or something like that, then the actual design of the website isn't going to impact the sales as much. But when you start leaning towards beauty and products like that, the actual design and the aesthetics and the color palette and everything else that you use, you already know this is going to impact the site greatly. And I think people, even myself included. I've downplayed and, and, and didn't believe that design was really that big of an issue because my offer and my call to action was so strong.

[00:09:23] Kai: was really that big of an issue because my offer and my call to action was so strong. But I also know that they are working in very different spaces. And so, so there's that I'm talking about e commerce physical product, especially anything that is targeted towards women or anything that's, that's, Got any sort of undercurrent of aesthetic. So fashion space, beauty space, in particular, like those are, those are two pretty significant ones where, where the actual design of the site really does matter, the aesthetic, the look and feel as it were, is important. To be honest, I think that to some degree look and feel is important across any brand but and i'm i've just i've seen it in the numbers. I've seen it too many times in the numbers to To feel differently on that. But yeah, I think that at the end of the day, I always tell people That especially in those spaces, but just overall that it's really critical. I think to be thinking about What feelings and emotions? You want your brand to evoke, right? And, and so if it's from a product perspective, right? But also from like even a website design perspective or marketing collateral perspective. How do you want people to feel? What feelings are going to need to be tapped into in order to drive the conversion? Right? And that is different for. Basically virtually every brand. And so the, the more you can really think that through the better off you'll be. And especially when you start getting into lanes where you are searching for influencers to, you know, where you're running influencer marketing campaigns, where you're seeking out brand partnerships, where you're seeking out celebrity partnerships, like. It, you know, it matters, right? When they're checking out your site, there's, there's a, there are certain sets of feelings that they are supposed to feel right in order for them to say, yeah, let's do this deal. And if you don't necessarily have that, or if they hop on your site and they're just completely underwhelmed, it just makes it harder. It makes it hard to convert. So it's not just about purchases too.

[00:11:55] Tommie: I hope people catching this because, branding Is an experience more than it is pretty colors and, you know, image, you know, images that just look pretty, but don't really deliver a message. And I know we're going to get into that, but I just taught you was about to say something. I think I just cut you off because,

[00:12:22] Tieron: I mean my, you know, my points can go three deep. Like I was just thinking about actively black again. Right. Actively black here. They are mailing out products to the president of the United States. Is, is Obama really going to put, is Obama really going to put his face and his name to a product that looked like, you know, it was created in somebody's backyard and in a mud pit or something like that. Like he not, he not about to do that. Like they're sending this to like, um, Megan good and all of these other high level celebrity, Allen Iverson, like they're looking at that. They're like, yo, my child could like, you know, it's like a, you know, my child could have did a better job with this website. So I think that we don't realize how even with outreach influence of marketing outreach is like I've tried to influence the marketing play before and it didn't work. Well, you got somebody with a million followers who probably thought that the product on his face was dope, but they clicked through to the website and the logo was all huge. Like half of the page is the logo. And then after that, the product is down. They're not sending nobody to that site.

[00:13:23] Tommie: as they didn't make them feel good, the feeling that they got didn't land. It's like the product is good. But when I go to this website, I get a negative feeling and I don't even know how to explain that.

[00:13:35] Kai: Well, no, it's, it's simply put, it's the product is might be good, but you can't tell that the product is good. This is the key with e commerce. Especially even like, I mean, I think in fashion and apparel in particular, people struggle with this or burn struggle with this even more, but what you, what folks don't realize is that you can't touch the stuff

[00:13:55] Tommie: Yeah.

[00:13:56] Kai: like.

[00:13:56] Tommie: you ain't in the store trying it on,

[00:13:59] Kai: exactly, all you have to go on is the site, right? And what's in the site. So content, right? So yeah, social proof stuff and all that other stuff, whatever. But we all, we already know about all that, but what I'm getting to is how can you use site design? And some functionality too, right? It's not just design, but functionality as well. but how can you get to a place where somebody can experience the product in some way, shape, or form? In a way that doesn't require them to be in store touching it or putting on their face or, you know, putting on their hand to see if it matches her skin tone or whatever, right? How can you go about that? How can you go about bringing that experience to the forefront digitally? And I think that, not enough brands are thinking about that. The minute you can really dive deep into, like, UI and UX and look and feel and, Getting to a place where you can nail those various components, you're going to be in such such a much better position to convert without even having to like, you know. Massively turn on the faucet. The beautiful part is, is that when you do turn on the faucet, that is paid traffic. Everything's gonna move a lot. It's just, it's gonna be a lot more efficient, and you're gonna get a lot more bang for your buck. Like the difference between a, you know, a three 4% conversion rate and a one and a half percent conversion rate on a site is insane when you're talking about tra uh, paid traffic. So

[00:15:28] Tieron: Facts.

[00:15:29] Tommie: big facts. Well, I was just going to say, like, when it comes to the messaging, right? So, when we get into, like, messaging, and when you talk about brand, and you're talking about, a visual experience. know, functionality and all of that, Right. And then you get into messaging, right? There's also scenarios where you can have all of these beautiful things, but from a messaging standpoint, it's still not landing, right? So, it's just kind of like... Getting into that messaging conversation where that's like, and again, like messaging deep, right? Cause that go front end, you know, post purchase. There's a lot of nuance to message. But when we're talking about more traffic to my website and getting into convert, sometimes people have all of these beautiful things, but the message ain't really hitting. So it's just, you know, let's speak to. That combination where we're also under, you know, communicating, like, again, I'm just trying to give people keywords to do their, you know, do the, to dig deeper, right, Cause we're not going to solve all of these things on an episode, but it's like, just kind of sprinkling these keywords out there for them to be able to kind of go deeper on. That's why I was talking about functionality, right, when it

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[00:17:25] Kai: So, from my perspective, I'll put it this way. So typically, in my agency, we don't typically work with brands that don't have their messaging dialed in to some degree. And that's just by virtue of the fact that they're already doing numbers. However, [00:17:43] Tieron: You can't scale my product with just a period on the page.

[00:17:46] Kai: when we talk about getting to, when we talk about getting to like, a situation where you're able to grow leveraging traffic, wherever it comes from, whether it's paid traffic or other sources.The best way, what I found is that, We start tackling or start traversing into discussions not pertaining to just, Oh, is your messaging tight? Because it usually already is to some degree. It's how can we diversify the messaging? Such that we are actually going into the realm of inclusive marketing versus exclusive marketing. So. And just for people who aren't, familiar with kind of the, the concept, most internet marketers are, building out entire, marketing ecosystems based off of the philosophy or the concept of exclusive marketing, where every single step along the way, every single step along the customer journey, more specifically, you know, that there are going to be people who fall off, right? You're going to have, you know, Bounce rates, exit rates, people are going to drop off at all these various steps and your goal is really just to get to the tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people who complete that journey and purchase at the end, right, or towards the end, versus inclusive marketing, which essentially says, okay, so there are people who are not going to resonate with this particular message, but for those people, we have this particular message. And there aren't going to be people who, wind up adding to card, what have you, but we have something that's catching. Or that's going to, to speak to those people over here, right? And so essentially what's happening is, you've got not just like one funnel, quote unquote, you've got these various micro funnels that are kind of running in parallel, such that by the time you get to the end of the journey, as it were, or towards the end of the journey, it's really towards the end of the journey, because you still have post conversion, but But once you get down the road there, you're able to capture a lot more of the market than you would have been able to otherwise. And so when we talk about Yeah, when we talk about growth, it's not just about, I almost call it, I almost consider it like, , akin to horizontal scaling, like as media buyers, right? You're, you're focused on diversifying the various messages and getting as many angles that are going to capture the attention and the interest and, capture the conversion for as many different audiences as possible for the same product or similar products. And so that's, that's what I'm constantly thinking about is for any given brand, how many avatars are like, how many different types of people are already rocking and resonating and vibing with their products? What are people, what are the various reasons that people are buying this particular product and can we build out entire messaging mechanisms? that are running in parallel such that we can capture as many people who are buying these products for all of these various reasons, instead of just focused on the one singular or primary funnel that's targeting a specific type of person that's going to be buying the product for one specific type of reason.

[00:21:14] Tommie: Hey,

[00:21:15] Tieron: So hold up. Cause you said, you said like [00:21:21] Tommie: Hey.

[00:21:22] Tieron: I was like, you know what I'm saying? I was like, yo,

[00:21:24] Tommie: slow down for a second.

[00:21:28] Tieron: stay here for us. right there.

[00:21:31] Tommie: Right there.

[00:21:34] Kai: I mean, but, but that's, that's what it's like.

[00:21:37] Tieron: so so let's get, so let, so let, let's, let's get, let's give an example, right It's a lot to unpack. Let's get, so she so she mentioned horizontal scaling. She mentioned horizontal scaling. Then she mentioned the different angles, [00:21:50] Tommie: messaging

[00:21:52] Tieron: multiple messaging mechanisms.

[00:21:54] Tommie: funnels within funnels.

[00:21:56] Tieron: Within funnels.

[00:21:57] Kai: Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot. But I mean, that's what I think about [00:22:01] Tieron: and all of this is for the same product. let's give an example then. we're selling a skincare product that clears up your skin. It's it cleared. So the angle, the first angle that you was running before you met Kai, that you, that you probably exhausted a little bit, is the acne angle. So you're targeting teenagers. Well, guess 

[00:22:23] Tommie: There's also some car rosacea.

[00:22:26] Tieron: Yeah. Yeah. , yeah.

[00:22:27] Kai: so many things, psoriasis, eczema.

[00:22:34] Tommie: It was a, it's an absolutely [00:22:35] Kai: all kinds of stuff, right? And there are some products that can, that can [00:22:39] Tommie: solve all of those things. Correct. but you just acne and Now you trying to get more traffic and now you wonder why it ain't working. Cause it's like, I don't have acne Can this solve my It's called psoriasis. and it's like it can, well, cause you had these conversations with the, with the people who create this. It's like, but it can do that. but you ain't telling them that. So now you wonder why more people ain't buying. It ain't no way on your website that says, Oh, this helped with rosacea as well, and this helped with psoriasis as well. So anyway, go ahead.

[00:23:17] Tieron: I was just so, you just, so you just broke it down. So you just said rosacea, right? So that may be, an audience that's X, y, z, age. Then you have women, After they've had the baby because they no longer taking the, uh, the prenatal 

[00:23:31] Tommie: women and men too, by the way.

[00:23:32] Tieron: Facts. women X, which is a whole nother thing. So now, so now you have the women after they've had the baby. Now they have all of these skins skin issues because they're no longer taking the prenatal vitamins. So now they want to clear up their skin and your product works with that too. absolutely all of all of those or just people that have issues with dry skin, they may even be showing up. So each and every, so you're selling the same product, but now you're scaling that product because Kai is talking about horizontal. Cause now you got women that have rosacea, women and men that have rosacea. You got women that are pregnant after they've had the baby, their skin is messing up and then you still have your, your core audience, which is your people that, that had acne or whatever and skin issues. Right. And then, and then the psoriasis community. So that's one, two, three, four, that's four, right? That's four horizontal places that you can scale with right there. That's what Kai was talking about. That's just one 

[00:24:26] Kai: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you can go down the rabbit hole on that further because there are different types of people who have rosacea and are struggling with different elements of that, right? So when we're talking about messaging, especially like, you know, talking about trying to achieve front end profitability, Like that's what we're talking about. We're talking about, okay. Even within the rosacea like category, there are lots of different angles that are going to resonate with lots of different people who are suffering from that particular thing.

 [00:25:12] Tommie: You see what I'm saying? Like this. It's not really

[00:25:17] Kai: like that's, not. but it's not extreme. That's not extreme.

[00:25:20] Tommie: a lot of people don't know because they haven't been educated. So sometimes when you're educating people this, they'd be like, Oh my God, I didn't even know. You know what I mean? But I know like when I go to this place, it go crazy. And then when I go here, or or I live here and it's crazy. but When I go. Visit this place. I don't have no problem. But then when I get back home, and act up again crazy. right? So It's like, it's like levels to it. And that's where all these different levels to these levels to these angles and so forth and so on. The rabbit hole be crazy, right? Rabbit hole be crazy

[00:25:56] Tieron: So if you, I was just going to, I was going to put a cap on this and say, if you are a product developer, hopefully or product owner, hopefully that hit home for you because right now you may be talking to one segment of the market, but there may be three, four, five, six, seven, eight other segments of the market that you could be talking to and still selling your exact [00:26:14] Kai: product. Or even like even just talking to the same segment of the market in different ways.

[00:26:19] Tieron: Okay.Give me an example.

[00:26:22] Tommie: the example that I just gave

[00:26:24] Kai: yeah, I mean that's basically what Tommy was getting at. You know, it really comes down to, again, like I said, understanding why people are, but it all comes, it always messaging always comes down to how well you understand your audience, how well you understand the people that are not only buying your product, but people who are buying products that are competitor products, as it were. And so to the degree that you can have a deeper understanding of the reasons why they buy. You're going to be in a much better position to be able to pick out and identify all of these various angles and points of resonance.

[00:27:01] Tommie: Yup.

[00:27:02] Tieron: So at some point later on, I'm going to open this loop up and I apologize in advance, but at some point later on, we're going to teach you a hack. I apologize. But later on, later on Monday's episode, we're going to teach you a hacker, how to make money off of your competitors, uh, products so you can just make more money.

[00:27:19] Tommie: He just gonna throw it out there. throw it out there on him.

[00:27:23] Tieron: I mean, I mean, I Just kind of put the head out there for you. but as soon as she said it, I was like, yo, we could be making more money off our competitor's products.

[00:27:33] Tommie: hundred percent what

[00:27:34] Tieron: damn sure can.

[00:27:35] Tommie: A hundred percent.

[00:27:36] Kai: That's a true story.

[00:27:38] Tieron: Yeah. So.

[00:27:39] Kai: that in the Mastermind, I think.

[00:27:41] Tieron: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:43] Tommie: sure. Beat

[00:27:44] Tieron: so I think we, I think we've broken down a messaging point, but the product I think would be, I think the product is also key too, because now that we've kind of talked about the fact that now that you can open up five, six, seven, eight different messaging angles and micro funnels to kind of pull people in to buy your, to buy that existing product that product itself needs to be tight too, because obviously you just can't be selling, some run of the mill product and really get it there. And I think we were kind of going back and forth on whether or not a product really needed to have a secret sauce or whether the product really just needed to have features that other products didn't have. And I think you was talking about

[00:28:23] Tommie: I use Ain't nothing special about B12 dog. I don't need nobody to tell me about a secret sauce About B12. I just need it to function. Huh?

[00:28:36] Tieron: You taking the vitamins?

[00:28:37] Tommie: No, I take the liquid. I take the liquid. but it ain't that special about B12, bro.

[00:28:42] Kai: But there ain't nothing special about B12. There can be

[00:28:49] Tommie: There can be

[00:28:56] Kai: Let's say colloidal silver, for example, right? So the absorption rate of colloidal silver largely depends on like how small the molecule is, right? and so there are some brands that have like larger molecule, in a nutshell, layman's terms, there are some brands that have larger. Of these particles, larger sized particles than others, which then affects the ability for the thing to pass through and essentially lends itself to the efficacy of the product itself, like how well it works. Right. so the, the size in this particular case, the size of these particles. and the way that they're like ionized or what have you, I don't want to get in the whole science of it, but the way they're ionized, what have you, will then lend itself to greater or lesser efficiency. so those are things that, can be uniquely called out and are, in fact, one of the largest, colloidal silver brands, uh, around at this point, and they weren't always that the largest, they weren't always the most successful, but this was part of their whole, you know, UEP, and they rocked it essentially and wound up getting in all sorts of stores. I mean, you can find my Whole Foods at this point and they, you know, it's, it's. multiple nine figure company, I believe at this point. and that's, that's literally well, one, it was branding because their branding was way better than a lot of their competitors. and it looked like something that people could feel safe actually ingesting because of the brand. but two, like the, their messaging and the way that they brought forth, like, hey, this is what's unique and special about us was important. And I imagine, I can't think of like a B12 company off the top of my head. I don't know, Tommy, if you can maybe speak to the brand that compelled you to buy, right? And what kind of UVPs they had in play or what made them special. But I think that their brands are able to, like find a maneuver from a messaging perspective and find those unique things that can, help people get compelled to convert or convert faster.

[00:30:59] Tommie: the reason I brought it up is because it's, it's, my doctor Basically, was like, it doesn't matter what anyone tell you. There's nothing really. materially different. from when B12 or another. one is really just a dosage amount. And you just want to make sure that you have a company that's a good company. They've been around for a long time. They, They, use natural ingredients. and whatever. It was like a couple other things, but it was like, pretty much, you can go to, you know, vitamin shop And say these things. and whatever, when they point you at, you should be good. no matter what they say. Because at the end of the day, there are certain brands, there are certain products, to your point, That you will have these unique things, but then there's some things. that are just straight a commodity. And if you just know how to communicate the thing based on what your audience needs to hear. Better than everyone else and then deliver on the experience that you promise you can win out here in these streets. Without it really being like super special in the bottle itself. Outside of just a well developed and well, manufactured product

[00:32:17] Kai: So I agree. I agree. I will say this though, even in that example, what your doctor's told you is not something that's commonly known. So it's almost, it almost becomes moot point when people walk into a store and they're looking at all the various B12 bottles or what have you and they're trying to figure out and pick which one. They should actually buy, right? You'll have some people who are just like very price sensitive and just like, okay, what's the cheapest generic thing? Oh, this is this is five bucks. Cool, right? But you'll have other people who are like, oh, is this, you know, naturally sourced like people like even especially I think in the the natural or like natural path industry. a lot of these brands are placing like UVPs and this is what's special about us. And this is, you know, I don't know, vegan, gluten free, whatever, right? and those are things that are moving the needle for people people don't know that it for B12, it doesn't matter. So there's still, there's still going to

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[00:33:29] Tommie: Yeah, cause it is. But to your point, you just broke down all of the messaging that need to be said to get somebody like me to buy Because I know this shit is commodities, but There are certain things that I'm looking for that's gonna get me to convert. I know your shit probably about the same as everyone else's, I just need you to let me know that you have these things you probably do. They probably do but because you're telling me you do, and they're not telling me, I'mma buy from you.

[00:35:23] Tieron: Exactly. So in the, in the, in this, in this scenario, again, for all, for all of our listeners, this checking us out in this scenario, let's just say that product wise. All of the, all of these products was exactly the same as far as like the efficacy of them. They're all exactly the same. One is in a pill form. One is in a liquid and one is in a Syringe. But ultimately you, in your mind, you know that you want the result of the B12 now. So the one that you're going to pick is going to give you the fastest, the fastest [00:35:54] Tommie: Not exactly.

[00:35:55] Tieron: one that you can.

[00:35:56] Tommie: the needle is the fastest result.the needle is the fastest, but I don't, I I would rather go a little slower. It's just, it's just drip the liquid

[00:36:04] Tieron: The needle is a fast. I would rather

[00:36:05] Tommie: because that, I, I don't want to, I mean, I've done it before but it's just, Uh, it's something about poking yourself with them needles on a regular basis. It's kind of like, because I just have 

[00:36:16] Tieron: Yeah. It's

[00:36:16] Tommie: the liquid. it might take 30 minutes longer.

[00:36:24] Tieron: think as you

[00:36:25] Kai: but at least it's not painful, right? Like there's a, there's, you're weighing the pros and the cons of every single. And that's, that's how people go through their consideration process when they're deciding to buy something, especially something, that they need, right? Impulse purchases. It's a slightly different animal. but, but yeah, I mean, that's, that's the name of the game. And so when we're talking about, Really pinpointing. Product features that are going to align with the needs and desires of the audience and also mitigate the the the shitty stuff that audiences don't want to have to deal with. Right. you know, that's, that's really, really important. And I think that, you know, brands do this, I think the savviest brands do this very very well. and you can see it, you can see it in the the features of the product, even like for me, and I think we've talked about this before, so I won't like go down the deeply down the rabbit hole on this, but, I think for a lot of small brands, I always tell them. Like checkout reviews on Amazon for competitor products and get a sense for what are the things that people don't like about these products, right? The things that like that folks have, you know, they purchased a product, they've had negative experiences, or maybe they've had a positive experience, but they're just like, yeah, this is really great, but I really wish it didn't do this, or I really wish it didn't have this thing on it or what have you, right? Or, oh, it seems like it's constantly spilling every time I open the cap or whatever the thing like. They will tell you what you need to put into your product, right? So that you're creating something that's superior. And to the extent that you can do that, once you convert the customer, right, now they're hooked. And now they're not gonna, they're not, there isn't anywhere else to go because you're providing them with everything that they need. And even the things that they didn't realize they would be thinking about.

[00:38:18] Tommie: I mean, sometimes we just be giving all our gems away on this podcast.

[00:38:22] Tieron: It looked like you about to give away one you scratching your neck like you about to give away one

[00:38:27] Tommie: no, I'm not. I mean, I will, but I'm just saying, like, this, this Mastermind game, like, this type of stuff, we help people out in our masterminds, right, The type of stuff we work with our clients on as well, right, where we, we helped them with these things and I just basically gave y'all like, a super gym. Like, Ty, you know, me and you, one time we were thinking, trying to develop a software to scrape Amazon reviews, pull all of this stuff back, synthesize it down to help strengthen messaging offers around products and so forth and so on. That's a real, real gem right there. That's like... yeah, You should probably charge them. You should You should, probably charge them for that one. that's

[00:39:05] Kai: Honestly though, like I have so many, like, it's just, it's. Like to me, and it's funny 'cause it's like, to me it's like tip of the iceberg. Like, I could talk, I could write an entire dissertation on just what I said. right? Yeah. Like it's still tip of the iceberg and ultimately [00:39:23] Tieron: Horizontal scaling with the messaging. That's all

[00:39:25] Tommie: Hello, But that's a real gem. I just wanted to point that out. That was a real gem Like literally you can hear this even if you pause right now and went and did that. value out of that. I can guarantee you if you follow what she just said. It's just kind of pointing that out. That was a real gem Like literally you can hear this even if you pause right now and went and did that. value out of that. I can guarantee you if you follow what she just said. It's just kind of pointing that out.

[00:39:45] Tieron: And that point that you just made goes back to why it's wrong to think that you just need more traffic to make More money because we didn't just broke down like five or six things of what else you can do outside of just pushing more traffic to your website. And I think another one that we want to speak on too, is going to be on like right now, people are just thinking about, especially, and this is huge, right? Because earlier we talked about the design of your website and the experience and all of those things. And maybe you was overwhelmed by all of that. But a shortcut to that could be you driving more traffic to these platform shops

[00:40:20] Tommie: right. Right, we talked about that. right? we talked about that in the previous episode with like TikTok shop and,

[00:40:27] Tieron: Yeah.

[00:40:28] Tommie: shop, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah.

[00:40:31] Tieron: I think it's gonna be really, I think it's gonna be really dope when, Especially 'cause I believe Kai, I know you working on like a video series of like really breaking that down so people know exactly what they can post and how to set up a TikTok shop.

[00:40:43] Kai: Yeah, but that's only for, uh, folks thatare joining our challenge.

[00:40:47] Tommie: Yeah,

[00:40:48] Tieron: So, so, keep, let me keep moving. So I've seen where people have, they push some, they, they've allocated, let's just say, cause they just wanted to warm it up. So, and just really tested, they would take like 20 percent of their traffic and then start pushing it through these shops.And they saw that one, the, the CPMs were lower. The conversion rate was higher. And actually their cost per acquisition was lower. Have y'all seen the same thing?

[00:41:13] Tommie: I personally haven't ran a lot of shop based ads. I mean, obviously YouTube. You know, we still doing the predominant stuff. I mean, we, you know, there's some Google shopping type stuff, but it's not really like tick tock and Facebook with a shop attached to their profile. type scenario. You can get something like that on YouTube, but it's not. they ain't there yet. I think they got a ways to go to catch up with probably really with tick tock, tick tock. Look like they don't want that really making this thing go.

[00:41:42] Tieron: Yeah.

[00:41:43] Tommie: is kind of like, I don't know. It's just,

[00:41:45] Kai: so, so I've run, I've run traffic on, to Facebook shops, IG shops, and TikTok. and TikTok shop. and at this point, I think we probably Probably millions in ad spend at this point, predominantly on Facebook IG, but more recently we've been driving traffic to TikTok shop, uh, more frequently, particularly as TikTok shop has been released to us sellers. [00:42:07] Tieron: I think you meant hundreds of millions.

[00:42:09] Kai: well, okay, but... anyway, I've been driving a little traffic, I've been driving some traffic. to shops. 

[00:42:17] Tieron: Oh, just shout. Oh,

[00:42:18] Kai: Yeah, drive traffic to shops. yes, a little, a little bit. There's, There's, been, there's definitely, we've definitely seen increases in conversion rates. Um, we've definitely seen, probably like, it's almost like you, you're kind of greasing the wheels a little bit for like Those particular campaigns that are driving traffic there from like an algorithmic optimization perspective. and so what we find is that they tend to be more efficient, not always, but it does trend that way. then like if you were to be driving traffic just straight to DTC, you're straight to like an e com, like a Shopify or something like that. but it, there's some variance there at play as well, Right. So for example, there are some brands that we run traffic for on who have products or selling products that are quite frankly, TikTokable as shit. Right. And when I say TikTokable, I'm really talking about like their propensity to go viral on TikTok. and so, so that fuels quite a bit of like, from a data optimization perspective, that fuels quite a bit of that, Right. So there are some other elements at play is what I'm saying, in some circumstances now, I definitely think that, that companies should be strong. If they haven't already, they should strongly, strongly consider. directing some of their traffic, testing, you know, taking like a 5k budget or something like that, and test straight to these various shops. So Facebook, IG, TikTok, and see what they can, see what they can, you know, muster out of that. because by and large, especially I think Facebook in particular, Facebook shop and IG shop for fashion, apparel, beauty in particular, these are spaces where. We've seen More material strides for sure, test it out. I tell people to test, especially because everybody's like origin story as it were, matters a great deal. And so the assets that you have at your disposal, the products and all that good stuff totally play a role. and so, you know, Results will vary, especially if they're not being run by KRA, but, but I definitely, you know, test it out.

[00:44:31] Tieron: Shade.

[00:44:32] Kai: I just, you know, I'm just saying.

[00:44:33] Tieron: I think one of the things I want to leave people with too, is that. The fact that the myth of I just need more traffic if you just heard the things that we just rattled off and you haven't been doing any of those things or tested any of these things, like tick tock shot especially because the Forbes article that you just wrote stated that. Tick tock is actually going to give you 50 percent of your money back.

[00:44:53] Kai: to, Up To 50%.

[00:44:55] Tieron: Up to 50%, right? So if you're selling a product for, let's just say you're selling a product for a hundred dollars and you give me 50% percent all Black Friday, tick tock is going to turn around and give you up to 50% percent of that money back, right? Yeah. So that's hard. I don't think any other platform is doing it.

[00:45:10] Tommie: ain't nobody doing that.

[00:45:11] Tieron: what I would leave the audience with is, definitely There's more to it than just pushing more traffic to your website to make more money.

[00:45:18] Tommie: I mean, to me, I'm glad we got into this conversation because I can send this link out to people from here on out, because look, here's the reality, right? I get this a lot. And people, you know, in their mind, they're coming to me now because they try getting more traffic and it didn't work. But now for some reason, when Tommy come and do it for them, my traffic is just magically going to work, you know, because I got the Midas touch And it's like, it ain't got nothing to do with that. All of these things that we just talked about, right? So for me now, I can use this as a resource to share with people because essentially, this is the thing that I'd be trying to tell people. And the last piece of that is look, I'm not holding against folks a lot of times because I understand, like, the education in the marketplace. People aren't really being educated on these things, So now, again, this becomes a resource because now it's like, Well, let me educate you on why it ain't just a traffic thing. He'll go listen to this episode. You're gonna get a better understanding because I probably ain't gonna have time to sit up on a car with you and explain, you know, for an hour or two, you know what it is that I'm saying. So,

[00:46:31] Tieron: Right.

[00:46:32] Kai: I think there are people who are talking about this stuff out there. I just think that there's a certain kind of, there's a certain segment I think of, the e commerce space that hasn't gotten into those rooms yet. and the people that they are listening to are not having those conversations because frankly, they don't really know what they're talking about half the time. But I do think that there are people out there that are that are talking about like optimization and talking about ways that you can further optimize traffic. I mean, we're obviously just, you know, three of those people. but the problem is, is, that oftentimes there's like this massive barrier to entry into those spaces. So oftentimes you're having to put down like 15k, 25k, 30k, 40k, what have you to be joining masterminds that are actually going to dive into the weeds on this kind of stuff. and not everybody is able or willing to, you know, to, to, put that up. So, so, you know, there's that, but I think it's it's definitely worth diving into further. I know we're going to be talking about a lot of this stuff on our challenge. That's coming up, and probably to some degree, to a lesser degree in future episodes. yeah, super important stuff. It's really really critical. It's not, you know, the, the, takeaway that I want people to come away with is the fact that this is not about, like, there isn't just this, like, Um, direct correlation between more traffic and more sales in the way that I think a lot of media buyers or a lot of internet marketers want you to believe there's a lot more to it than that. and yes, that is, that plays a role, but there are things that you can be doing that you should be doing and have in place such that when you do increase traffic, your, you know, your returns don't go like this. Right. or don't plummet really like you're going to have even, even the most. Well optimized, ecosystems are going to find that they have some sort of diminished element of returns as you scale, like you start running traffic, like at scale, however, there's so much that you can, you can do to mitigate a lot of that. and I think that a lot of brands just aren't doing enough of that.

[00:48:46] Tommie: Yup. Yup.

[00:48:47] Tieron: I agree.

[00:48:48] Tommie: Awesome. So if you guys love this. make sure you like, comment, subscribe, reach out, let us know. Reviews. Review. Please review, Give us the game, you know, give us the feedback we needed. It keeps us pushing. and Keep us going. That's all I got. I'm out.

[00:49:05] Kai: all out. Have a good one.

[00:49:07] Tommie: Holla.

[00:49:07] Tieron: See on the next one.

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